I made sure I correctly heard the claim.
"He was known to carry a hatchet," Barnett repeated.
Ron Thomas, the victim's father, has acknowledged to the Weekly that defense lawyers will try to taint his son, but he's labeled the accusation that Kelly was violent "a lie."
In the aftermath of the Thomas killing, Ramos received death threats and was forced to live in hiding. There were also reports that he was placed on a suicide watch at one point. This is where Barnett returns to his position that members of the media have unfairly inflamed passions against his client.
"Look, this image of my client being violence prone is wrong," he said. "In fact, the truth is just the opposite. This is a guy who had a reputation for not being tough enough."
Barnett also says there is a potent, pro-defense point that's looming.
"We don't know the cause of death," he said.
His point is that if the coroner can't say which blows caused Thomas' death, then how can a jury confidently assign responsibility beyond a reasonable doubt?
I tried to follow up, but he cut me off.
In the Rodney King case, Barnett managed to convert alarming bystander video of the beating into an asset for the cops. In the infamous Haidl gang-rape trials involving the spoiled teenage son of an assistant Orange County sheriff, he attempted but failed to prove that an unconscious 16-year-old girl deviously orchestrated her own rape. Now, in the Thomas killing, there's sensational video of cops beating a man to death. None of us knows if Barnett can turn Exhibit 1 in the prosecution's case into a defense asset, but we know he's going to give it his best shot.
"It's going to be very interesting," he said.
The show begins March 28 at a preliminary hearing, at which Rackauckas will battle the defense to determine if the government's case reaches minimum standards to proceed to trial. Don't paint the often-colorless DA as the underdog, though. Three decades ago, as a hotshot, rising prosecutor, he was good enough to convict an innocent man of murder.
This column appeared in print as "Attorney for the Damned: Veteran criminal-defense lawyer John D. Barnett insists his cop client didn't murder Kelly Thomas."
LET ALL THOSE WHO THINK THIS IS PROPER PROCEDURE HAVE THIER WHOLE FAMILIES DONE THIS WAY AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY THEN. MAYBE THE LAWYER OUGHT TO GET WHAT THIS POOR MAN GOT AND SEE IF HE WOULD STILL DEFEND THEM IN COURT. " YES YOUR HONOR THESE MEN DID WHAT WAS RIGHT AND I GOT WHAT I DESERVED". PLEASE LET THEM GO NOW. FU ATT AND COPS
Here's an interesting tidbit ...... http://www.kfiam640.com/player/?station=KFI-AM&program_name=podcast&program_id=BillHandel.xml&mid=22167785
man this sick piece of shit lawyer should be charged with assistance with getting away with murder, and general moral depravity. just fucking sick.
He should be charged with abuse of police powers, infringement of civil liberties, taking pleasure in intimidating citizens, general scumbaggery, and deservingness of death by a thousand tasers.
The coroner reported that the victim died of his inability to breath. He suffocated because of the pressure applied to his body, against the sidewalk. Not because of a beating to his head, necessarily. If Ramos (who is a big and heavy man) was holding the victim against the cement, he would have murdered him by suffocating him.
The OC DA deserves a best actor award for his dramatics and feigned emotion. He has sunk to a new low using his power to advance his political ambitions at the expense of two officers who were dealing with a rapidly escalating situation with a person who was known (by his family) to be very violent. His own mother had a restraining order filed against him. It is well known that he once physically attacked his grandfather. His father when contacted by local police would say that he (Kelly) was their problem now.
When Ramos says, "See these fists, They're getting ready to f--- you up," he ALSO says, "iF YOU DON'T F-ING START LISTENING.". Something that the DA likes to omit when miss quoting Ofc. Ramos.Another thing the DA and now the media so conveniently neglect to include is Thomas' response, "START PUNCHING DUDE." Does that sound like someone who is in fear for his life?Even RonThomas admits to using force with Kelly, "Ron once used his jujitsu skills to apprehend his son, wrestling Kelly into his car from a Yorba Linda park using wristlocks. "A lot of things I did with Kelly were very painful. But what are the alternatives?” -Orange Coast Magazine, March 2012
Barnett has offended the fraternity of paramedic & emergency medical workers.
John Barnett, his family, members of his law office at the Block in Orange, & all of his allies will NOT be receiving any life-saving medical attention from me or any of my brethren.
So just HOPE and pray you never have a heart attack or crash your Lexus, Barnett.
As an Emergency Worker for a major ambulance company, if I ever encountered Mr. John Barnett, his family, staff or any of his allies I WOULD DECLINE TO PROVIDE EMERGENCY CARE because I am afraid to be sued by a shyster like this guy. So listen up Barnett, if you ever crash your white Lexus SC 430 convertible and you are needing CPR, I'm just gonna write "deceased" on the report.
I'm no expert, but I'm smart enough to know when the poe tell someone to get on the ground, the best thing to do is just do it! I've never see anyone win a confrontation on the street with the police, EVER! A 6 year old ghetto kid will even know this! There is always plenty of time later to complain and go after those that you think may have done something wrong, but that time is not while on the street. The video distrubed me too, but I also know it's near impossible to get some crazed person under control at times without force being applied. The part that disturbs me the most is the cop hitting him in the face with the flash light and later saying he beat the shit out of his face. That bothers me. But even so, I'll wait for the final verdict. Things are not what they always appear and all of this could have been avoided by the guy just doing as he was told and dealing with whatever injustices he felt he had undergone at a later time. All of you should not be so quick to judge. None of us were there and the video, although distrubing at times, doesn't always tell the real story.
If the killers had left him alone in the first place there would have been no need to "get him under control" His offense? Being mentally ill and an inconvenience. Therefore a disposable person, right?
........."but I also know it's near impossible to get some crazed person under control at times without force being applied"So true even Ron Thomas felt that way:Ron once used his jujitsu skills to apprehend his son, wrestling Kelly into his car from a Yorba Linda park using wristlocks. "A lot of things I did with Kelly were very painful. But what are the alternatives?” -Orange Coast Magazine, March 2012
They are using the same defense for these officers as was used for the officers that beat Rodney King. It worked once, so maybe it will work again. It's all B.S., of course, imo.
BArnett will attack Kelly's credibility, bring up assertions about a hatchet that are lies and paint him as the bad guy. Juries don't like this. Ramos put into action a series of blows that eventually led to kelly's death. Ramos only stopped because he was not physically able to continue to beat him so Cincerelli took over while other officers held the victim down. A human's instinct is to survive. People jumped to their deaths from the world trade center windows instead of being burned to death thinking somehow they would survive. Had the officers stopped beating kelly once he was on the ground he would have stopped fighting, he would not have a reason to resist. Continual punches, kicks and poundings to the face with a metal object and the body resists, it wants to flee.Kelly's strength came from his will to survive. In situations where danger exists and a crowd tries to flee the crowd is told 'don't panic" no choice. The will to live and survive kicks in. They tazered him and expected him to sit still, they pounded his face into the ground and told him to sit still, they kneed him in the face and told him to sit still, they kneeled on his chest and told him to sit still. Beyond a reasonable doubt. Which one of these acts if they were done to you would you be able to withstand without reacting too? Which one could you take and not fight back? Which one? Ramos was holding his legs down and still no cuffs on Kelly. Kelly was dying from lack of oxygen and no medical help was offered. They let him die. Ramos guilty, Cincerelli guilty. Beyond, way beyond, a reasonable doubt.
Hey If KT or me or any of you would have told the cop, 'see these fists...they are about to fuck you up' can you imagine the reaction? Probably brushed under the rug, cop was fearing for his life, KT was schizophrenic, etc . But KT gets no latitude because apparently it's this fat bastard cop's prerogative to hurl the aggression and KT should have submitted to the fat fuck's beatdown.
This is an example of how the media reports only partial truths. When Ramos says, "See these fists, They're getting ready to f--- you up," he ALSO says, "iF YOU DON'T DO WHAT I SAY." Another thing the media so conveniently neglects to include is Thomas' response, "START PUNCHING DUDE." Does that sound like someone who is in fear for his life?
Even RonThomas admits to using force with Kelly, "Ron once used his jujitsu skills to apprehend his son, wrestling Kelly into his car from a Yorba Linda park using wristlocks. A lot of things I did with Kelly were very painful. But what are the alternatives?” -Orange Coast Magazine, March 2012
My prediction, hung jury first trial, conviction second trial on Ramos when Cincinelli turns states evidence.
My prediction: You will eat your words with some fava beans and a nice Chianti when BOTH officers are found NOT GUILTY.
Barnett is trying to contradict what the tape/video is showing. Barnett was not there and neither were we. You can pick apart piece by piece and twist and turn every millasecond but the outcome is the same. Ramos and cincinelli used excessive force and torture. Using a taser repeatedly on anyone and you expect them to sit still? Kneeling and kneeing someone in the face and you expect them to sit still? Pounding an object into a person's face breaking their cheek bone and eye socket and you expect them to stop moving? The more the 6 officers escalated the abuse and torture the more Kelly fought for his life. What would you expect a human being to do?
Ramos clearly was trying to antagonize Kelly. He knew Kelly was ill and still expected him to "comply". Would he have asked a cripple to get up and dance? People like you who don't understand illness are the reason why crimes like this happen. Kelly did nothing wrong, he should not have been harrassed in the first place. Want the truth? Here's a man who tells the truth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqXJOpdjnX0&feature=related
To the defense lawyer, the additional words make a huge difference because "It's clear that police officers have every right to use force or the threat of force to gain compliance in certain situations," a quote from the story above.......
Kelly was trying to comply with ridiculous confusing demands by Ramos. It is undoubtedly clear that Ramos's behavior, actions and threats were to pick a fight, get an excuse for a fight. Fullerton PD knew Kelly, Ramos was out of control, beat a man until near death, ignored kelly when the Paramedics arrived. Add it all up, Ramos put into action and caused Kelly's death. Guilty.
You people better hope that they don't get me on that jury. Cause I would vote NOT GUILTY!!This homeless crap is out of control in southern California. You people feel so sorry for them, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and bring one of them home with you. I am so sick of dealing with these creatures, pandering just so they can get their drugs and booze. Now after this the police won't be able to do their job. Next time you call 911 to complain about these sub humans, the cops will just come out nurse maid them and leave.
Dont you dare think for one damn second that these two cops are an isolated incident among OC Law Enforcement!!! OC Jail Staff beat prisoners every single day, street cops lie on the stand and file false reports, OCDA screws up daily and holds innocent people behind bars and much more!
The days of simply trusting police in the OC are long long gone my friends. 44% of OC Cops are dishonest and corrupt. This is a conservative estimate trust me.
John Barnett makes a good point. How come the others aren't charged? The answer is simple. The DA needed Ramos as a scape goat. If he could cover up Ramos he would have but there was just to much media attention and public outcry that he had to choose from six murders. Ramos was his selection.
Let me get this straight, Ramos was holding Kelly's feet at the end because he was EXHAUSTED FROM BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF HIM?
Yeah, that's some defense. Go with that one.
WHAT MR. BARNETT FAILS TO UNDERSTAND IS THE FEELING PEOPLE FEEL ALL OVER THE CO., IS TIME HAS COME FOR [EVIL] TO FEEL ALL EVIL IN THE LIGHT!!! WILL BE BROUT DOWN LOW THE KELLY THOMAS MURDER HAS SHINED A GREAT LIGHT THAT NOT EVEN HE CAN STOP.WHAT DOOR GOD HAS OPENED NO MAN CAN CLOSE AND WHAT GOD HAS CLOSED NO MAN CAN OPEN.AND KELLY OPENED A LOT OF DOORS AND WILL CLOSE MANY MORE THE 6 THUGS IN BLUE JUST MURDERED THE WRONG ONE KELLY WAS THE LEAST OF US AND IN BEING SO,WAS THE LAST .THE FRIST SHALL BE LAST AND THE LAST SHALL BE FRIST THANK YOU KELLY FOR BEING CHRIST-LIKE AMEN.
To answer uncalled for Michael Ward comment: Why judge all cops by what a few do. I've had nothing but good experiences with cops, could it be that Mr. Ward has done things he should have not done and is blaming someone else? And for Treasure Brown comment, What would you do if you had a know, by the police, psychopath man coming at you? Again there is two sides to a story. Why judge before we have all the facts. RELEASE THE TAPE. Then we can comment on what we see not what everyone else tells us or by writing just what they want us to know.
Why judge all cops by what a few do? Because every cop who is not one of the few has remained silent on this and every other documented abuse of power. Complacency is complicity.
I am in the "the entire tree is rotten" camp. Why? Because nothing is done about the "bad apples". Cops are "thick as thieves" when it comes to protecting their own. Because of unions and the "thin blue line" it is nearly impossible to even fire a "bad apple". Cops in American have created a Brotherhood every bit as evil and oppressive as the Nazis.
"What would you do if you had a know, by the police, psychopath man coming at you?"
What psychopath man (sic)? Ramos or Cicinelli?
The only "psychopaths" there; that night were wearing badges. I suppose if they were coming for me I would be dead.
You were not there and neither were all those who are quick to judge and believe a version of events that they don't have all the relevant facts on.
Though the OC Weekly has done its darndest to try the cops in the forum of public opinion, I appreciate this story. You allowed Mr. Barnett to say his piece without a series of snarky editorial asides. There are always two sides to a story and even if there's just a little daylight between the two, it's always in our best interests to know that.
an easy prediction to make. cops always get away with murder. you can set your clock by it. they're completely above the law and basically have impunity to murder the rest of us at will.
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