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Bob 11/16/2010 3:25:00 AM
Eric,
I hope you spent the time to read ALL the comments concerning the OCBA. It is a front for an extermination business, the phone calls to OCBA are directed to an extermination business. They will tell you ALL bees are africanized, please pay 300 plus for our soapy water spray.
Dave and his groups are phonies. How can the so called president of a beekeepers club wear an exterminators jacket to the meetings each week?
There are real beekeepers out there, look around, not easy to find. Man are younaieve..
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Eric 10/06/2010 9:31:00 PM
Resubmitted. Apparently the site didn't like my word editors formatting.
Good article but I'm a little disappointed with the portrayal of Mr. Marder and the OCBA. I see a clear parallel to shouting at your city animal control officer for warning you that approaching stray dogs can be dangerous. The phrase “don’t shoot the messenger” comes to mind. Let’s look at some facts.
1. Bees sting.
2. Bees can become unpredictable when bothered.
3. Some people are born allergic to bee stings.
4. Africanized bees can be aggressive.
5. Africanized bees exist in the US and their numbers are increasing.
Does that mean all wild bees should be eradicated? Of course not. Does that mean they should be handled with care? You better believe it! I’ve had the chance to talk with Mr. Marder on several occasions and I didn’t detect an ounce of doom or gloom. He also doesn’t sugar coat the topic and rightly so. Apiculture (bee keeping) can be dangerous if not taken seriously. You are working with semi-domesticated animals in large numbers that use stinging and as a defensive response.
As a member of the OCBA I encourage anyone with interest in beekeeping or just looking for more information on bees in general to attend one of our meetings and judge for yourself. It’s a great group that hosts honey tasting, knowledgeable speakers, and honey extraction demonstrations. All ages welcome. www.ocbeekeepers.com
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Erik 10/06/2010 9:27:00 PM
Good article but I'm a little disappointed with the portrayal of Mr. Marder and the OCBA. I see a clear parallel to shouting at your city animal control officer for warning you that approaching stray dogs can be dangerous. The phrase “don’t shoot the messenger” comes to mind. Let’s look at some facts.
1. Bees sting.
2. Bees can become unpredictable when bothered.
3. Some people are born allergic to bee stings.
4. Africanized bees can be aggressive.
5. Africanized bees exist in the US and their numbers are increasing.
Does that mean all wild bees should be eradicated? Of course not. Does that mean they should be handled with care? You better believe it! I’ve had the chance to talk with Mr. Marder on several occasions and I didn’t detect an ounce of doom or gloom. He also doesn’t sugar coat the topic and rightly so. Apiculture (bee keeping) can be dangerous if not taken seriously. You are working with semi-domesticated animals in large numbers that use stinging and as a defensive response.
As a member of the OCBA I encourage anyone with interest in beekeeping or just looking for more information on bees in general to attend one of our meetings and judge for yourself. It’s a great group that hosts honey tasting, knowledgeable speakers, and honey extraction demonstrations. All ages welcome. www.ocbeekeepers.com
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Kerry Stuart 08/31/2010 12:18:00 AM
Phil Chandler, author of the book The Barefoot Beekeeper has recently published a short pamphlet called, Beekeeping, Pure and Simple where his holistic approach is laid out in a very accessible manner. I recommend you all download yourselves a copy.
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Bob 06/13/2010 8:07:00 PM
Many statements have been made here regarding Dave Marder the exterminator. One thing is clear. Dave is an narcissist. One would be led to believe that without Dave, Uncle Dave or shut up or i will punch you Dave that bees and beekeeping would cease to exist.Dave's methods beliefs and sermons sound like an old drunk on the corner belching out some religious beliefs to a magazine rack. HHmm....
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Alex Memon 07/26/2009 11:04:00 PM
I saw great article about Bees article is.
" PLAYING HIVE AND SEEK WITH THE BACKYARD" It is great article and it says call them they come to help you. but there is not number Pleae advise how we call them
Hope to hear from you soon
My number is 949-552-7617
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Alex Memon 07/26/2009 11:04:00 PM
I saw great article about Bees article is.
" PLAYING HIVE AND SEEK WITH THE BACKYARD" It is great article and it says call them they come to help you. but there is not number Pleae advise how we call them
Hope to hear from you soon
My number is 949-552-7617
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bOB 07/08/2009 7:08:00 PM
Ed,
In LA there is a group called ' backward beekeepers" look them up and meet with them.Keep the movement toward preservation going . Stick with the winners...
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Bob 07/06/2009 11:29:00 PM
The hives are monitored by a network of beekeepers and volunteers. Anything out of the ordinary and help is on the way. The support for the beekeepers is enormous and growing day by day.A positive approach by experienced people is what makes this all happen. Appreciate the support and in La Mirada there is a beekeeping club that meets once a month. Get involved, get informed, get with the movement...it has only just begun...
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Ed 07/06/2009 5:40:00 AM
Wow! Great human interest story and email response. Los Angeles needs a story like this. I wonder if there are bee keepers here?
I've had an interest in bees for 40 years but have never had a hive. This story fills in that interest for me.
It's sad that the American answer to "problems" from nature is to immediately kill the problem. (This same "solution" is seen as well in American foreign policy, but enough on that.)
So to all my friends south of the border in beautiful Orange County - I vote for the grandmother backyard beekeepers. I pity the bees - one kid gets stung and they all must die.
Good luck to the beautiful bees and the alergic kids.
Thank you Gustavo Arellano for a wonderful story.
A word of "wisdom" -
"Watch the hive, watch the hive."
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Bob 06/16/2009 12:53:00 AM
Stinger,
Good post however there is one correction. Dave doesn't have a 'club' Dave manipulated the membership by having his friends and family join on election night, vote for Jim Ludiker and then disappear never to be seen again. The OCBA does not belong to Dave . He may think it does but his bullying chased all the beekeepers away . OCBA does not have beekeepers in it, if there are there are very few. It's a farce. They use a taxpayer funded building for free to promote, indirectly, a FOR profit business.
If you admire Dave for doing something then you stand alone....
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Stinger 06/15/2009 6:25:00 PM
The only thing missing from the article and all the comments is a definition of Africanized bees. They start attacking en mass at least ten feet before anyone can get near their hive. They start attacking in the tens, then rapidly gain in dozens, then hundreds. They persistently chase as a group, and they can keep up the chase for at least a half hour, hanging around a person's escape area waiting for them to return. That's why they're nasty. Their venom is no stronger than regular bees. The Italian (or whatever you want to call the other kind of bees) don't act as vicious and team-like as that.
I keep bees in my backyard. I would not have kept a hive without knowing how to get rid of it, especially if it became Africanized. I have it set in an area away from my neighbors. I check on my hive. Like Janet, Kelly, and Martha said, domestic bees are mostly concerned with their business of foraging and hiving.
Hived bees are considered as livestock. In biology, they're considered not just as insects but more like animals. As such, they have some smarts and can be handled domestically.
It's a pity that Dave is the whipping boy of the beekeeping community in Orange County. On his behalf, I admire how hard he works and the investment he has made in his business. His services are necessary for removal in areas amateurs can't or shouldn't handle. He's professional and quick. I don't admire, however, the way his beekeeping club is managed. I don't admire the over-use of the term "Africanized bees". Things are not as black and white where suburban bees are concerned.
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Gustavo Arellano 06/10/2009 11:41:00 PM
Hey, folks: continue the fun at this link!
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Bob 06/10/2009 7:33:00 PM
I'm disappointed that dave hasn't chimed in yet, guess he's still out delivering newspapers this morning. well hopefully he will check in and we can see how he is doing.
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Bob 06/10/2009 3:55:00 AM
Waiting for Kim and Lydia to come to Dave's rescue.
Dave can you put that superbee suit on and pose for us again, I laughed so hard I crapped my pants when I seen that. You could wear it to jaurgerhaus and hand out honey sticks for the christmas party. I hung it in the mens bathroom at work to discourage loitering.
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Bob 06/10/2009 1:54:00 AM
I think so. He has a lot of time on his hands seeing his business is failing.
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Mrgofast 06/10/2009 1:27:00 AM
Dave,
Are you going nuts?
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David Marder 06/09/2009 8:42:00 PM
Three months later and where are we now?
(1) In the latest issue of the American Bee Journal, Dr Jerry Hayes makes a reference to the false "preconceived ideas" and "editorializing" in this very story;
(2) The "Backyard Beekeepers" have changed their name and are now a for-hire service
(3) Three bee attacks in Orange County have made the news since this story was published. A man in Texas was killed by bees this last month and just this past Sunday we responded to a call where bees had killed three dogs in Santa Ana.
And so, I once again encourage those who are concerned about bee health to do their research and heed what the experts are saying. Like Dr Hayes says regarding this story, "Beekeeper consideration for a potential danger in Africanized honey bee areas is very important. We do not want the public to have the perception that beekeepers are unprofessional and imprudent. None of this is good for anyone." I will continue to raise and promote good healthy bees from known stock, while eradicating problem bees. If other people want to utilize the services of some opportunistic quacks trying to make a fast buck off misperception, that is their prerogative, but one should know there's more to the story.
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Steve Tyler 04/22/2009 11:47:00 AM
Praise to the Backyard Beekeepers for being responsible caring people unlike the misfortunate ones that think killing off anything non-human is the only solution. What on earth would we do without bees.
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Mrgofast 04/19/2009 3:12:00 AM
I find the exterminator and his families comments most disturbing and appalling. The gentleman from Arizona is quite wrong in his statements. A good library or other research source may suit him well.We must be sure we are giving the public information that is correct and not misleading .
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Bob A real man. 03/21/2009 2:50:00 AM
Was it in the papers? When did this happen? You are correct. We always advise folks to call us instead of these wanna bees. One meeting at OCBA does not make one a beekeeper. Hope your daughter is ok.
Why is it you just found this article after it has been out since last month some time.? Few people read this anymore, they tired of hearing a certain individuals cheerleaders pumping their pom poms about what a great and wonderful man he is. Kind of reminded me of the wizard of oz. when the curtain was pulled all he was was a broken down man.
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Mike 03/21/2009 1:20:00 AM
Our little girl almost died from a backyard swarm of bees and there is nothing that I admire about people that keep illegal bees in their backyard because they think they are making the world a better place. After 350 bee stings, my daughter will never bee the same. I am sueing this idiot for what he did to my family because of his bees.
Leave this stuff to the pro's!
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Dr. Bob Esq. Ups Dsl 03/20/2009 9:26:00 PM
What the readers have found most interesting is the OCBA supporters still fail to point out the untruths in what I have said. You cannot point them out because you know they are true. I will retract any statement that you consider false. I seriously doubt anyone would bother to read your "damage control" report about what you folks are really about and that is fine. I seriously doubt that you are a beekeeper yourself. You have no credentials to prove anything. The truth has been spoken. I play with you like a cat plays with a mouse and I find your posts most amusing. Let us know if you are ever interested in learning about beekeeping .
Have a nice day washing the company vehicles.
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Beekeeper Kris 03/20/2009 9:11:00 PM
I'd like to thank all the random people who have wandered into these comments and chosen to speak up against "Beekeeper Bob"'s trollish behaviour. We've been trying not to stoop to his level and get dragged into the flame war he's been trying so hard to start.
However he's been spewing forth a great deal of wild allegations. It appears commenters wandering in here have by and large been able to see his conspiracy theories for what they are, however, lest the uninvolved reader think there's ANY credence to his claims, I have decided to answer them.
But I'm not going to be drawn into an insipid flame war here. So I've posted a thorough rebuttal to "Beekeeper Bob"'s claims, as well as a general background of why he's so enamored with David Marder, here:
http://excathedrian.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/airing-out-the-trolls/
(Yep that's the "employees blog" Arellano mentions in the article)
And to nip some immediate responses Bob's going to have in the bud -- (a) I am not Amy; (b) Dave is not using his mind control to make me do this - this was entirely my idea.
To leave you all with some happier news, the recent rain has brought about a major bloom. The bees are boomin and I'm putting supers (additional boxes) onto all our hives this week! (=
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Dr. Bob Phd. Ftd. Dsl. 03/19/2009 7:11:00 PM
Queenbee,
Interesting you would choose that, you must be a plus + size.
Anyway Why would you assume I have a "hard on" for Dave? What are you saying or trying to tell me?
False accusations and slander. Slander is the "FALSE" statements about someone. Please point out the false ones.
Attack Thoenes? re read what he posted, I was quoting him about being a "bee killer".
Thoenes speaking at the club? Could you provide the dates when he did that? Ill have the meeting minutes checked.
Googly middle school girl eyes? I'm far sighted, my eye doctor says he hasn't heard of that condition, sounds painful though.
A member of OCBA? I try not to spread that around too much. It was a painful time in my life, seeing all those new members come in with hope in their eyes , hoping to learn about bees and all they recieved was week after week of arguing and cross talking and reading of the last meetings minutes which was the same. More time was spent on jaugerhaus and ice cream socials than bees. Who took the meat from the summer get together and who is bringing potato salad to the holiday extraveganza.
This isn't a bee club, it's a eating club. Based on your use of relating to the queen bee you must have been a member for quite some time.
So be fair and correct my mistakes, teacher. Ill be checking periodically.
enjoy the day.
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Bob 03/18/2009 7:27:00 PM
Queenbee,
My, such foul language. I think the person with the lack of education is showing here.
If you do a search of the so called Dr.and I didn't know at the time if it was made up or what, it shows that he kills bees for profit like beebusters does. Now, correct was is wrong with what I just said.
Secondly. I was a member of the group that called themselves the OCBA. The OCBA is actually nothing more than a front to have ALL calls diverted to beebusters where the caller is told that the bees MUST be africanized and need to be exterminated. Their agenda was to make a profit off of the fair booth each year so they could have sausages and beer at the jagerhaus each year.
Correct the mistakes in that statement please.
Slander.
Anything and everything discussed on this forum was witnessed by at least 20 other people . The so called club has been the talk and the brunt of jokes for a very long time. What went on and continues to go on is public knowledge discussed in a public forum, the so called meetings you held and I believe continue to hold, for now anyway.
Profanity shows ignorance, enough said on that point.(do you have a mirror?)
So Amy or whoever you claim to be, please answer Gustavo's question about his article.Your advoidance is obvious.
Thanks for posting though, I lauged so hard I tinkled a little....
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Queen Bee 03/18/2009 6:17:00 AM
Bob, one thing is clearly evident, you have no life and obviously have a hard on for Dave Marder. Funny how you come in here and write false accusations and slander people, but are too chicken shit to actually use a real name or go visit Dave's bee hives. Now you want to attack Dr. Thoenes?! You are completely out of your mind. Dr. Theones is a well respected, educated professional. Where are your credentials? Oh, that's right, you have NONE.If you were a menber of OCBA, you certainly had no issue with Dr. Thoenes coming and speaking at their club meetings as a guest speaker, multiple times. I bet you even asked him questions while staring at him with googly middle school girl eyes? Something just doesn't jive right here. I seriously doubt you were ever a member of the OCBA, or a Beekeeper for that matter. I think you are someone who is holding a grudge and found a forum to express it. How sad I am for you.
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Bob 03/16/2009 7:34:00 AM
The so called Dr. Thoenes is actually a bee exterminator like Dave according to a background check. He kills bees in Arizona and Dave kills bees in California.
Jasmine, it's nice to see that you got away from that group. So many positive things are happening in the bee community in OC today headed by experienced and responsible beekeepers.
Amy, still waiting for you to respond to Gustavo's comment. What's wrong? Dave didn't give you permission to respond?
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Jasmin 03/15/2009 5:12:00 AM
Hooray for the Backyard Beekeepers!
I was a member of the OCBeekeepers Assn. for 3 years. Dave was a mere pothead upstart then.
His comments reflect his and the clubs greedy intentions about all bees in the OC. Get over yourselves Dave, Bee Busters and OCBA! There are beekeepers who choose not to associate with you- and keep happy healthy clean (cleaner than yours) hives.
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Gustavo Arellano 03/07/2009 3:55:00 AM
Amy: So you decided not to answer my challenge to your assertions of tricks? Can't say I'm not surprised...
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Amy 03/07/2009 2:24:00 AM
The writer here has obviously managed to get quite a few people riled up, myself included. It would seem that presenting two sides to a story was partly the intention however slanted the article turned out to be. At first I was angry, but now it saddens me that someone who 'played the story down the line' could come to such uninformed conclusions and put these women on a pedestal while downplaying the advice of the experts. It sure isn't the first time.
The good thing is that this article and comment string brought out many well informed bee entusiast's perspectives and the simple truth. The negative mud-slinging only serves to illustrate who may need some more education.
It is hard not to be offended when an article like this puts such a misplaced slant on the bee situation. I talk to so many people each day about bee problems and beekeeping. I am proud of what I do and the knowledge I have gained. Obviously, even the people that no longer work for David are offended and upset. We know what it is like to answer an emergency call from a city police department on a Saturday afternoon or Sunday evening at 9pm and respond immediately. (Both of these situations have come up within the last 2 weeks.) But in this business we not only serve to protect the public from dangerous situations, we are also here to educate them. We are licensed professional pest control company, but I have also talked to countless people about getting started with beekeeping, joining the club and setting up hives in their backyard. I enjoy talking to people and answering whatever questions they may have, because this isn't just my day job; I have become a bee enthusiast too. And as for David, I don't think I have ever seen him in a better mood than when he is talking to kids about bees and showing off an observation hive. Sharing his love for bees with school kids is what really makes him smile.
Thank you to the OC Weekly for at least publishing the letter from Dr. Steve Thoenes, as well as the one from Lydia. (The third letter is rediculous which goes to show again what happens when people do not do their research. "Africanized" is used because the bees really are from Africa and the 'ized' is used because they mixed with the local population upon their arrival.)
So good luck to all the beekeepers this year and happy honey harvesting. We are gearing up for a great year. So we will be here, doing what we do best and who knows what the next phone call will bring.
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Sour Grapes 03/06/2009 7:10:00 AM
Wow a lot of slandering going on. I would bet good money that this "bob" character is one of the unlicensed women in this story. Seems a lot like sour grapes to me. Mr Marder is a good man and has dealt with a lot of jealous, angry detractors. Thats what happens when you are the best at what you do. Whoever "Bob" is, one thing is for sure, he/she is a coward hiding behind a computer screen. Heres a big steaming pile of beef stew for you :)
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Kim 03/06/2009 2:20:00 AM
Hey Lyd, how about them bringing the kid along on the bee call? I got a mental image of him dropping that bee smoker and burning the house down. Then they'll REALLY wish they were insured!
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Lydia 03/06/2009 1:29:00 AM
This is in response to Shoeflower.......
Did you know that 1,500 stings is enough to prove fatal for a 150 lb person? Did you know that there tend to be over 30,000 bees per hive/swarm/colony? Did you know, that when a bee stings you, it leaves behind a phermone that alerts other bees to you, marking you a threat?
I don't know about you, but I'd rather deal with a flying rattlesnake than 30,000 pissed off bees!!!!!!
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Chris 03/05/2009 11:57:00 PM
�A school once asked us to teach kindergartners about what we do,� Yrarr�val says. �We wanted the kids to visit some bees that friends of ours keep. The principal said no. It hadn�t even dawned on me that some people might think the bees were dangerous! But how great would it�ve been?
What kind of stupid shit is that to be saying??? It hadn't even dawned on her that bees might be dangerous? My father kept bees on his ranch in north san diego county near vista. I helped him harvest the honey and maintain the hives and I can tell you with no equivocation that bees can be dangerous! A sting to an allergic person can be fatal. God forbid the bees are having a bad day while you're working with them. They'll sting the hell out of you. They aren't puppies, lady. OF course its dangerous, africanized or not! And you want to bring kids around the hives? Come on now!
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Kim 03/05/2009 8:51:00 PM
I'm Lydia's cousin from her father's side of the family. David's sister is my aunt and godmother. I worked for David on weekends back when Lydia was running the office as her backup relief. She was working 12-hour days, 7 days a week, answering call after call from frantic Southern Californians with bees in their yards. Whenever I'd thought I'd heard it all, I'd hear something new. Bees blocking front entryways into homes, people trapped in offices, cars covered in bees.... And sometimes it would even be as minor as "I have a bee on my rosebush! Please come kill it!" While the people in this (highly slanted) article, as well as David Marder, and even the commentors here happen to love bees, the general population as a whole does not want them living in their backyards and many fear them.
Before I started working for David, I was the type that would panic at the sight of bees. I would scream and flail my arms and run. I did not like them and wanted nothing to do with them. But after working with David I learned more than I ever possibly wanted to know about bees and I've come to appreciate and respect them. He's traveled the world to learn about them. National Geographic has featured him in an episode of Explorer. He's worked with the best in the field. You call it name-dropping, I call it credentials. Obviously, if someone is going to write such an accusatory article without doing much research into his background to make it fair and unbiased, he's going to have to present his own credentials for you.
Like it or not, David is providing a legal public service. He is licensed and insured to do what he does. Much like people who work for animal shelters, he does not get his kicks removing and killing the bees. It brings him no joy. But better it be him than unlicensed, uninsured, bee enthusiasts who create more dangers than they realize. (Letting a six-year old play with a smoker? Are you kidding me?) There's a reason that regular pest removal companies do not deal with bees and refer inquiries to specialists such as Bee Busters. It is an extremely dangerous business to remove them from structures.
In a perfect world, I have no doubt David would remove every last bee unharmed and place it in a permanent bee colony away from the public. However, the overpopulation of people in Southern California prevents him from doing this. You can't even imagine the size of the fleet he would require to rehome these bees on a daily basis. So until an actual constructive solution presents itself, whether it be everyone in SoCal to happily accept bees into the walls of their homes and on their trees in their backyards and for all of the feral ones to disappear, or for some insanely rich person to fund such a huge undertaking as to transport all of these colonies to safer areas every day, it will continue to be an unfortunate necessity to kill the bees.
And Bob, it's just plain ridiculous to accuse everyone who comes here to defend David's good name of being Amy. By that same token, I suppose we could say that perhaps you are one of these women, posing as someone named Bob. You obviously know nothing of David's employees and family, although it's highly evident that you hold some sort of personal ill will against him and will make up whatever you want in order to try and make yourself look better. And the more you comment, the more erratic you become. Perhaps you should just step away from the computer before you hurt yourself.
David has invited you to come inspect his hives. I think it would be a good idea for you to sit in the office one day. Perhaps a nice, busy Saturday in the spring. Listen in on the calls they receive. Listen to the frantic voices from the many people in your own neighborhoods who are scared out of their minds by a few tiny bees. Yes, we love bees. No, we don't want to kill them. But the sheer numbers are against us. There is just no possible way to save them all. So much like the most adorable, sweet, loving animals at the pound that would make great family pets if only everyone would open their hearts and doors to them, some bees are going to have to be put down.
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Beekeeper Kris 03/05/2009 8:34:00 PM
Then we did see eachother at the election meeting Bob, but I still don't know who you are since you refuse to use a last name and I'm not entirely sure "bob" is really your first name. I'll sign an affadavit that no one was ever paid in money, food, beer, or any form, for voting for Dave or commenting to this entry. We do these things for the same reason anyone ever votes or comments, because we disagree with you. I'll also say that yes I was a member of OCBA long before that election meeting you're so bitter about. I like to keep bees, not get myself to a meeting in Costa Mesa once a month. I'm guessing that thats how a lot of the other people who only showed up for the election meeting felt. I'll only go to the meeting if I have a particular reason to do so (like a vote), but otherwise I might not come out of the woodwork until I'm working the fair or some such. Otherwise, you'll find me busy working the bees.
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Bob 03/05/2009 7:58:00 PM
First of all if you work for Dave then you saw me at the OCBA election meeting. I was there to vote, you were there because Dave PAID you to be there and PAID for your membership that night so you could vote. Deny that. No one has of yet.
I don't need to back up anything I say to please the likes of you. The truth has a "biting" sting sometimes huh.
Why does Dave keep calling up folks to get on here to defend him?
Who gives a rats ars how many calls you get a day? Half are probably from solicitors.
Your credibility is questionable, your tactics lame, your name calling childish.
TEll me why there were 75 people voting in a bogus election and the meeting following the election there were maybe 15 people in attendance? Fraud? You call yourselves credible after that fiasco?
get a life will you. Funny how you all come on here name dropping various individuals all the time, that's called insecurity. Conspiracy? Me thinks you guys are the ones wearing the aluminum foil hats looking for the black helicopters. ooh yeah, the boogie man under the bed? he doesn't exist. Just thought you would like to know. lmao..
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Bystander 03/05/2009 2:41:00 PM
This comment is for Bob - I find it incredibly funny that you make a lot of accusations against a man, and when people come to his defense you demand them that they prove their information. Well, Bob, I would like for you to do the same. Why don't you back up your accusations with "proof".
It's easy to come in and anonymously slander some one on the internet. To me you come off as a guy with a vendetta, a coward who hides behind an identity to insult the credibility of some one, when you have yet to prove how credible you are. Atleast David Marder isn't hiding behind an internet pesona, which to me destroys any credibility you claim to have.
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Beekeeper Kris 03/05/2009 11:57:00 AM
I was standing in the middle of one of our bee yards surrounded by 75 bee hives when I received a call in which, between fits of laughter, I was informed that "'Beekeeper Bob' is back, and he claims we have no bees."
I am a beekeeper. And I work for Dave. I am a beekeeper and only a beekeeper. With some 200 hives, it takes an additional full time beekeeper (me) to keep everything maintained.
Now consider that it's not uncommon for Bee Busters to get 50 bee control calls in a day. That's obviously an additional 200 hives every four days. Are we to add an employee every four days?
The fact of the matter is you might not like what Bee Busters does, but NO ONE has or can have the capacity to rehive and maintain 50 new hives a day. If no one did what we do now, "bee savers" would NOT be able to keep up with demand, and homeowners and businesses across Orange County would just have to deal with an out-of-control bee situation.
If I were to choose just one aspect of the above article to object to, I'd like to object to "Marder sparred with bee enthusiasts on the Register website." The plural is incorrect. There was only one "bee enthusiast" sparring with Marder. "Beekeeper Bob." And here he is again.
Beekeeper Bob, I understand David apparently rubbed your rhubarb the wrong way at some point. However this isn't a giant conspiracy. Every time someone supports Dave it isn't because Dave is exercising mind control and can cause anyone around him to do what he wants. Friends and colleagues of Dave have been arguing with you because of their own volition they support his stance and object to your insults upon him. Also, of course, when you insult his company you insult five employees you don't know. Five employees who are not the nefarious cartoon villians you seem to imagine.
I was a member of the OCBA for many years before working for Dave. I'm not some parrot of Dave's as I'm guessing you're getting ready to label me at this point in the read. I graduated from UC Davis. I know Dr Mussen, I've worked with Dr Theones, I've worked bees with Dr Visscher. This last California State Beekeepers Assn Convention I had the pleasure of talking at length with Dr Sheppard of WSU as well as many other researchers. I'm currently applying to join the Peace Corps as a beekeeper. I fancy myself a well informed member of the bee community.
I am not interested in attacking your position on this matter, but since you have rabidly attacked Dave's position I will say that Dave's position makes complete sense to me. And I'll further point out that despite Arellano's very careful framing of the quotes to obscure the fact, the quotes from both Dr Thorp and Dr Mussen both say what Dave says: rehiving bees is a bad idea unless it can be done safely away from the public.
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Bob 03/05/2009 8:42:00 AM
UC Davis entomologists recognize that the feral bee population may be the future of commercial beekeeping.The feral bees have such a diverse gene pool that has allowed them to survive the diseases and natural pests, Unlike the commercial bees that have been treated with antibiotics and fed corn syrup.
The commercial bees are having so many problems because their natural microbial cultures have been killed off in the beehive leaving them in a weakened state. The commercial beekeepers re queen using a less diverse genetic pool.
There are exterminators that tend to believe that all feral bees are africanized which isn't true. There have been limited cases of africanized bees in Orange County in the past however the competent beekeepers today are eliminating the agressive ones and monitoring and maintaining the non agressive italian bees.
Lets not forget,the genome of the honey bee has been mapped and it was discovered that they have very little devoted to their immune system. They found that the health of the hive and the bee is dependent on the microbial culture in the beehive. In humans we have good bacteria in our digestive system to keep us healthy so do the bees and their hive .
It's very clear that the educated small scale beekeepers are those that help protect the good genetics of the feral bees and the future of commercial beekeeping .
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William Hagen 03/05/2009 3:37:00 AM
As difficult as it might seem, and as passionate and emotional as Dave gets, he is correct in his approach, and knows bees, been doing the job for over 25 years. I remember the early years, he and I worked together for a while, and we wanted to save every hive, try to rescue it. One needs a proper place to take care of the hive properly, and to be able to re-queen to control the gene pool, or the hive will pass feral genes via queen swarms, and drones. Before africanization, this was less of a problem, but it can be dangerous in populated areas. Feral hives can also be very stressed due to lack of availble food, which encourages mites and viruses, which create sources and vectors to contaminate carefully controlled commercial operations. We all would like to be good stewards of our environment, but we must do it wisely as well as passionately.
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shoeflower 03/04/2009 9:27:00 AM
Great article! I really wanted to understand where the Bee Buster guy was coming from. Unfortunately, he just sounds really sensationalist, eg. 'flying rattlesnake'? what a lame analogy.
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Linguistic Wonderings 03/02/2009 7:21:00 PM
How was the moniker "Africanized Bees" ever deemed an acceptable name for feral bees in the 1980's? Certainly, there is probably some empirical evidence showing that certain bees from Africa made their way here and bred with local bees, resulting in bees with new, and more aggressive traits. But come on, to name an entire genetic malfunction after one of the seven continents? What must the educated, hard-working people in Africa think about us naming an epidemic of nature after their homeland? Reminds me of when Joseph Conrad called it "The Dark Continent," and the name stuck.
Why didn't we start calling every married woman's left hand her "Africanized hand," as we all proudly wear "Africanized" diamonds to show our status in this world? Somehow we are accustomed to understand that "Africanized Bees" are problematic, whereas we have to think of Paris or somewhere western and romantic when we look at the diamonds on our hands that were certainly mined, regardless of whatever "Kimberly Treaty" papers they might have come with, straight out of horrendous West African diamond mines by 12-year-old slaves.
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Very Afraid 02/28/2009 10:23:00 PM
Maybe these "Africanized bees" are really African terrorists disguised as bees, hiding weapons of mass destruction! We better put some bee suits on the Dept of Homeland Security. Come on people, I thought the "fear factor" was the last 8 years. Let's deal with what is.
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Bob 02/28/2009 7:31:00 PM
Here is what would be really nice. There are people doing things they like to do, not hurting anyone ,minding their own business and as soon as some people find out the bullying and harassment and finger pointing starts.
dave, Im directing this at you.
Why don't you do your thing, we will do ours and leave it at that. Of course feel free to comment yet when the bullying starts you will get it back and then some.
You should see the meetings around orange county where folks congregate ,talk about bees, laugh and help one another ,there is no arguing, fighting just laughter and good times. Attending an Orange County beekeepers meeting is like going into a room filled with africanized bees. That's why I and everyone else left. There are few people that really give a rats @%*...about what you do but you like to stir it up.
Let it go man, you are not king of the bees, you are not the bee whisperer the limelight does not shine on you and we are not going away.
Acceptance man, accept what you cannot control. let it go, take a yoga class, cross your legs and burn some incense, relax dude ,relax...
and leave us alone.
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bob 02/28/2009 9:35:00 AM
Amy, Lydia, whatever you call yourself this week. Tell everyone how Dave (I like to call him uncle dave too) brought ALL his employees on election night, gave them their 5 bucks to join the club, handed out "cheat sheets" on who to vote for , we found some of the sheets on the floor after they left to drink in the parking lot. we counted over 75 votes that night and the next months meeting had ..what..15 attendees? Tell me what part of that story is not true. Sorry, the books are in shambles, Dave scared away everyone that was half way decent in the club . Dave thinks and pays you to think he is the only person who knows anything about bees. Dave isn't as bright as he thinks he is. the trips? prove he even went. He claimed in the register article that he IS the largest beekeeper in OC. Now you say he doesn't have bees here. make up your mind will you? Say the truth, not what dave pays you to write ok. Dave charges people tons of money to spray soapy water on bees and claims they are all africanized. Dave wouldn't know one if he saw one. And as far as controlling that phone number to the phony bee club. he threw a fit when he thought it was going to be taken away.
tell me what I just said isn't true and wasn't witnessed by at least 15 other people. Were you one of the "family" paid to vote on election night? How embarassing is that, he had to pay people to vote for club president. He was so afraid he PAID people, his employees, to show up and vote.
Funny but reputable people in the bee community laugh when they hear his name and his stories of travel to distant lands. "he's telling that one again huh'? Sad, so sad.... poor man..
ooh by the way, it's not true that the money raised is used for parties during the year. The club had over ten grand of unreported income in the bank, the non profit status was NEVER filed, tax returns were NEVER filed. You are running a business and not paying taxes, shame on you. Hungry children all around and you don't pay taxes. using a taxpayer funded building for personal gain, shame on you...shame on you. Uncle Dave you make me sad. you really do.
Uncle Dave, could you tell us the story again when you went to Africa and wrestled the lions again, will ya uncle Dave ,Will ya?
ooh please..lol..
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dudeman1961 02/28/2009 6:36:00 AM
My ex-wife's uncle used to raise bees in his front yard for over 30 years in Sun Valley. These bees made the best honey. They 'hired' us kids to wash the jars. All he did was hot knife the comb, place the opened combs into a centrifuge and spin them out, then bottle the honey, running it through cheesecloth to remove any 'extra' bee parts. Some of this honey was stored and 20 years later had not crystalised. Then one day an inspector arrived because a 'new' neighbor had turned him in, and hasta la vista bees, R.I.P., the end of an era.
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Gustavo Arellano 02/28/2009 6:20:00 AM
Amy: You're a funny gal. What are these tricks I used for my story? I'd sure love to learn how to do some�I can't even shuffle a deck of cards! How did I put your boss down? I played the story down the line�for you to say that the public can't understand it is absolutely arrogant.
And to accuse me of writing this story for personal benefit is HILARIOUS.
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Amy 02/28/2009 5:32:00 AM
First to Diane �I suggest you think about whether you would want you neighbor to have a wild wolf tied up in their backyard. Bees are fantastic creatures, but not all of them belong in your backyard. No one here is killing bees for sport!
Well hello again Bob. I have some words for you also. First of all, I am not Lydia. Lydia used to have my job here at Bee Busters and is David�s niece. Bravo Lydia. She knows exactly like I do the dangerous situations bees can cause, as well as the hard work put in by all of our employees to help the public. Second, if you would like to set up a time for a field trip to our bee yards, David has extended you an invitation. As far as the club is concerned, David�s goal was not to make money. David is very proud to be an original member of the club and to have participated in it for about 30 years. He did not want to see some amateur self-righteous people come in and ruin a good thing. David knew flat out that these individuals were misguided and seriously inexperienced with regards to beekeeping and laws about bee removal. David does not need the club to �keep� his business. The handful of calls per week we may get, as referrals from the club, don�t even compare to the 50 jobs per day during peak season. Oh, and do you think these ladies could even fathom the type of labor that takes? Not to mention the 200 times my phones ring each day, (yes we have counted.) The DBA name was a preventative measure. It has been returned to the club. If you remember, some sneaky people tried to incorporate the club without approval and in their own names. It just turned out David was faster and smarter, and it�s a good thing. At least his intentions were not selfish. You should also be careful what you assume about club moneys and tax filings. Things may not have been done by the book before, but let me assure you that everything is in tip top shape now. I am happy that I could assist them with that issue. And to educate you a little more, DBA filings do not have anything to do with income tax. Also, the universal �no� symbol in our logo cannot be copyrighted or trademarked. I have the paperwork that says so. Obviously the logo is catchy. Its been working for over 25 years.
And to the author � What a load of crap. Of all the reporters over the last few years that have written stories about bee die-offs, you have got to be the worst yet. You masqueraded as someone that wanted to get the story right from both angles. What a load of BS! It is blatant you knew from the get-go that your intention was to make the backyard beekeepers look good, but did you really have to put someone down to push them up? It is obvious you did some research, but you overshadowed it with verbiage to make some of the facts disappear into the background. A journalism student that we have been helping with a project was able to pick out your little writing tricks quite easily. Unfortunately the public isn�t always so good at that. I�m quite curious what interest you had in writing this story. It actually seems as though you would somehow benefit from this publication. Is Martha your wife?
And thank you Steve! Although, I�m sure that yet again these women will ignore the advice of the experts.
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Lydia 02/28/2009 5:03:00 AM
Actually, my name is Lydia Barry and David Marder is my biological UNCLE!!!!!!! We grew up with Uncle David totally engrossed in Bees. I was his office manager up until a few years ago and learned more from him in a few years about Bees than I think most lay people would know. Please check your facts before making false accusations. Have any of you traveled to Thailand to research bees? To Africa to see true africanized Bees in the wild? To South America? I highly doubt it, yet my Uncle has. When I ran his office, whenever a person called in to have Bees removed without being destroyed, we ALWAYS referred them to the Bee Keepers Association and this was before David became more active in the group again. Jim, the President of OCBA can vouch for this as he was my go to guy for live removals. The only reason for dischord in the OCBA is because David mentioned that in order for the club to protect themselves from lawsuits (because everyone is so sue happy...just wait until these ladies get people stung to realize that) they needed to obtain liability insurance. David's hive are up in Northern California in less populated areas so they are undisturbed and if in case they become aggressive, cause no harm to people. That is TRUE RESPONSIBLE BEEKEEPING. He also loans them to farmers in the area for their crops. You know, like what REAL Beekeepers do. The only reason people hate on David is because he has built a lucrative, satisfying career out of what he loves..Bees. Any funds made by OCBA goes to meeting (cookies, coffee, etc.) their annual innauguration ceremony, thier annual christmas party, their fair booth and supplies and their monthly news letter. Those aren't free, fyi. Oh well, I guess true ignorance is bliss :)
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Lydia 02/28/2009 5:02:00 AM
Actually, my name is Lydia Barry and David Marder is my biological UNCLE!!!!!!! We grew up with Uncle David totally engrossed in Bees. I was his office manager up until a few years ago and learned more from him in a few years about Bees than I think most lay people would know. Please check your facts before making false accusations. Have any of you traveled to Thailand to research bees? To Africa to see true africanized Bees in the wild? To South America? I highly doubt it, yet my Uncle has. When I ran his office, whenever a person called in to have Bees removed without being destroyed, we ALWAYS referred them to the Bee Keepers Association and this was before David became more active in the group again. Jim, the President of OCBA can vouch for this as he was my go to guy for live removals. The only reason for dischord in the OCBA is because David mentioned that in order for the club to protect themselves from lawsuits (because everyone is so sue happy...just wait until these ladies get people stung to realize that) they needed to obtain liability insurance. David's hive are up in Northern California in less populated areas so they are undisturbed and if in case they become aggressive, cause no harm to people. That is TRUE RESPONSIBLE BEEKEEPING. He also loans them to farmers in the area for their crops. You know, like what REAL Beekeepers do. The only reason people hate on David is because he has built a lucrative, satisfying career out of what he loves..Bees. Any funds made by OCBA goes to meeting (cookies, coffee, etc.) their annual innauguration ceremony, thier annual christmas party, their fair booth and supplies and their monthly news letter. Those aren't free, fyi. Oh well, I guess true ignorance is bliss :)
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Steven Thoenes. PhD 02/28/2009 4:45:00 AM
I have been removing/killing bees for nearly 40 years in the Tucson, Arizona area. Beekeeping is my family business and I still maintain several hundred colonies of European bees, but these bees are in remote desert areas because the Africanized bees rule the city area. Live removals like the one described here are impossible in Tucson because all the flying bees attack anything moving. As the story stated the Africanized bee has been found in Southern California since the mid 1990's. What happens when the wrong bees are "rescued"? I try a couple of live removals in isolated spots each year...I get stung several hundred times through my suit and the bees abscond from the hive a few days later. Africanized bees frequently invade european colonies and take them over. Given the right cues (sounds or odors) they sting in mass numbers to defend their nest. This happened in Long Beach where an elderly man was stung to death while mowing by the Africanized bees that had taken over the beekeepers hive in his yard. There is virtually no backyard beekeeping in Tucson because it is too dangerous for part time beekeepers.
Because of massive media attention the general public believes that there is a shortage of honey bee colonies for crop pollination, I find that it is not true. This year for the almond pollination in the central valley of California there is a glut of surplus hives. The reasoning is simple.. the price per hive for pollination services was at an all time high, so the beekeepers responded and split their hives to make more money...and they overloaded the market. IN 2009 THERE IS A SURPLUS OF HONEY BEE HIVES.
On Conclusion
1. Bee Rescues are not needed to "save the bees"
The beekeepers are doing fine
2. Bee rescues are potentially dangerous if the wrong bees are "rescued"
3. In an Urban situation like most of Orange County, backyard beekeeping can be dangerous when the hive becomes Africanized. There are hundreds of feral colonies in every city that pollinate all the flowers. You dont need a hive in your backyard to accomplish this.
4. You dont want to hire someone who is unlicensed and especially uninsured, because the odds are eventually things will go wrong...and then what?
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bob 02/28/2009 4:36:00 AM
I think it is. I heard that Marder filed a DBA to keep the name of the Orange County beekeepers association away from a group of true beekeepers so he wouldn't lose the extermination business. They told us He was afraid of losing control of the phone number .The OCBA hasn't filed a tax statement in 10 years from what they said at one of their meetings, if ever, they claim to be non profit yet they have 10 grand in the bank and make 3 to 4 grand at the fair each year they don't claim. Is marder responsible for that? If he filed a DBA on the name should he be paying taxes on their profits? DBA means doing business as. The OCBA uses a building at the fairgrounds for free yet their member claims it as his business. Dave, what is going on here.
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marge 02/28/2009 4:18:00 AM
Marder sounds like an exterminator, nothing less, nothing more. he also sounds like an ego-centric loon.
beekeeping has been a hobby and a way of life for people for years. long before the ghostbuster fellow.
which PS: isn't the use of the Ghostbusters stuff copy infringement???
:o
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bob 02/28/2009 2:58:00 AM
A recent story in the OC register about the Cox communication rescue really exposed marder or who you refer to, Amy, as Uncle dave really exposed him for what he is, a bee exterminator. Mr. marder claims to be the largest beekeeper in OC yet no one has ever seen his bees. He claims to be an expert in just about everything concerned about bees yet time after time he quotes sources that are later proven to be less than true. He uses the club he paid his employees to join as an avenue to charge people to destroy the bees. Marder has one goal and one goal only, to make money spraying soapy water on bees for a profit. Anyone's attempt to protect and preserve the bee population is usually met with Marders smoke and mirrors. Sorry Amy but Dave is exposed once more for the phony he is. Nice picture of him in his boy scout uniform.
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Lydia 02/28/2009 2:41:00 AM
What are these women going to do when they come across a hive of not so friendly bees that run amok and not only harm them, but others as well? There was no mention of them having liability insurance, especially when they are slicing open structures. Its one thing to remove a swarm from a tree or a hive from a fence, but its another thing to be physically opening wall voids, encountering wiring, plumbing, etc.
David is at the top of his game through decades of experience. We grew up with Uncle David driving around with hives of bees in the back of his beat up Ford truck and going to the fairs to see his booths. Him teaching us about Bees, their life cycle and how they benefit us. His whole life has been committed to Bees.
He was one of only a very few in Southern California to even handle the Africanized Bee situation when it first came here, and I know first hand how hard it was for him to transition from a Bee Keeper to what most people now refer to him as.....An Exterminator.
Bees are his passion in life. In fact, I think he prefers Bees to people.
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Lydia 02/28/2009 2:41:00 AM
What are these women going to do when they come across a hive of not so friendly bees that run amok and not only harm them, but others as well? There was no mention of them having liability insurance, especially when they are slicing open structures. Its one thing to remove a swarm from a tree or a hive from a fence, but its another thing to be physically opening wall voids, encountering wiring, plumbing, etc.
David is at the top of his game through decades of experience. We grew up with Uncle David driving around with hives of bees in the back of his beat up Ford truck and going to the fairs to see his booths. Him teaching us about Bees, their life cycle and how they benefit us. His whole life has been committed to Bees.
He was one of only a very few in Southern California to even handle the Africanized Bee situation when it first came here, and I know first hand how hard it was for him to transition from a Bee Keeper to what most people now refer to him as.....An Exterminator.
Bees are his passion in life. In fact, I think he prefers Bees to people.
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Diane 02/27/2009 7:46:00 PM
At one time people feared the wolf. Just about everyone has heard some version of Little Red Riding Hood. The 'villain' in that story was no accident. In some parts of the country it is still 'sport' to shoot them with high-powered rifles from low flying helicopters. Today, it's bees. And we want to wipe them out because we can't tell when or if they will turn on us. Tomorrow? Who knows. All I can say is BRAVO!!! to the Backyard Beekeepers. I a, always learning from them and the interconnected web of natural world we live in. Back in the day, someone said, "A chicken in every pot." Maybe one day it will be, "A hive in every yard." Bee well
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Diane 02/27/2009 7:45:00 PM
At one time people feared the wolf. Just about everyone has heard some version of Little Red Riding Hood. The 'villain' in that story was no accident. And, in some parts of the country it is still 'sport' to shoot wolves with high-powered rifles from low flying helicopters. Today, it's bees. And folks want to wipe them out because we can't tell when or if they will turn on us. Amazing! Simply amazing. Tomorrow? Who knows what creature will cause us to be afraid. All I can say is BRAVO!!! to the Backyard Beekeepers. I am always learning from those ladies and about the interconnected web of the natural world we live in. Back in the day, someone said, "A chicken in every pot." Maybe one day it will be, "A hive in every yard." Bee well & May the Force Continue to Bee With You
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BackyardBKeeper Yrarr�val 02/27/2009 9:24:00 AM
Actually Gustavo, our neighbors could have called exterminators, because the bees were in a shared fence. Instead, they supported a bee rescue which makes them not so "ritzy". �Bravo vecinos!
If you want to follow us on our rescues or buy some honey , visit our blog at backyardbkeepers.blogspot.com. or send us an email at backyardbkeepers@gmail.com or
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Susan Hernandez 02/27/2009 5:33:00 AM
Good for the Backyard Beekeepers. Keep up the good work!
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Susan Hernandez 02/27/2009 5:33:00 AM
Good for the Backyard Beekeepers. Keep up the good work!